Mk2 2.3 Auto - Head Gasket

[philclemo]

Hi All

 

Just thought I would share our experience we have had with our Gal. We traded in our R reg Mk1 (2.3 manual) in January last year for a 03 2.3 Zetec Auto. After a few months ownership we noticed the expansion tank was ejecting most of its contents (staining on the tank and wet battery tray). We also discovered that the run on pump was pooped so no coolant being moved around to the back, a trip to Europarts and

[philclemo]

Hi All

 

Just thought I would share our experience we have had with our Gal. We traded in our R reg Mk1 (2.3 manual) in January last year for a 03 2.3 Zetec Auto. After a few months ownership we noticed the expansion tank was ejecting most of its contents (staining on the tank and wet battery tray). We also discovered that the run on pump was pooped so no coolant being moved around to the back, a trip to Europarts and

[chrispb123456]

Are you sure it's not just the head needing refacing (skimming), did you check the surface of the head with a straight edge and feelers.

[philclemo]

Hi Chris

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

You may well be right. We checked it rather rudimentarily. The puzzling thing is that the engine ran so well for the best part of 2 weeks before we got the misfiring (on starting) and the pressurising back. I'm all for the most economical solution and despite another head set and tensioner, this would be more cost effective than a recon head (which I'm having difficulty in sourcing incidentally).

 

An option suggested to me was to change the engine, which is looking a similar cost to a recon head (!), but looking at the procedure for that is filling me with dread!

[chrispb123456]

You said the head gasket was definitely gone when you removed it, at the point where the gasket had blown look at the head carefully, you should see tell tale marks this can be pitted marks or even eaten away.

As it was OK for a short while after replacing gasket would suggest heads not cracked, just not making a good seal.

[sparky Paul]

As it was OK for a short while after replacing gasket would suggest heads not cracked, just not making a good seal.

 

I agree 100% with Chris. It sounds like either damage to the surface of the head as suggested, or warped head.

 

It's not easy to determine whether the head has warped without getting it on a surface plate, the smallest high spot in the wrong place will pinch the new head gasket and cause it to fail again. I would take the head off, and if there's no obvious damage to the surface, get a skim taken off it.

[philclemo]

Update!

 

Have removed the head and it is going to be skimmed et.c.

 

One point though, on the Ford TIS it suggests a torque down of 10 nm, then 35 and then 2x 90 deg. Which I followed. However, looking at the torqueing suggestion on the gasket packaging it suggests a different routine, namely 24, then 54, then loosen by 90 deg, then tighten back to 54, then 2x 90 deg. Overall a lot tighter than the TIS recommendation which makes me wonder whether the head was torqued down enough in the first place thus leading to my problem!

 

Will update further.

 

Phil

[sparky Paul]

To be honest, I wouldn't think that the difference between tightening to 35 or 54Nm at stage two would make a vast amount of difference, it's the final angle tightening of the stretch bolts which pulls down the head. That said, unwinding the bolts after initial seating is a fairly common method with stretch head bolts.

 

Did you find any failure points on the old gasket?

[philclemo]

Update.

 

Got the head back from the engineers. It's been pressure tested with no cracks found and the valves have been lapped in. He told me that the head was warped and he had to take two skims off it. It's looking very pretty at the moment on my bench!

 

Got another head set, FAI brand this time and no tightening info. In a bit of a dilemma now, should I follow the TIS/Haynes or the suggestion on the British Gaskets packaging?

 

By the way, just picked up a new timing chain tensioner, it was

[sparky Paul]

Any nipping of the gasket is easiest to see around the bores, the used gasket should be a perfectly even thickness around each pot. The machine shop will have taken a small skim to resurface the head, and a further skim because this immediately shows up the presence of any warp.

 

Personally, I would go with TIS procedure, but the difference won't be that significant - it's the 180

[philclemo]

Update!

 

Refitted skimmed head, new gasket etc. Engine started (eventually), no leaks, no pressurising of the coolant system up to now.

 

One niggle! There seems to be a significant loss of power, initial acceleration (from a standing start is fine) but flooring the pedal at say 30 and it takes an age to get to 40 and a lot of induction noise from the air box. Hill climbs are quite embarrassing!

 

I have ran the engine and then disconnected the MAF and it stalled, so safe to assume its not the MAF. After doing a search on this forum for "power loss" the main results relates to diesel units, but the petrol posts either place blame on the MAF, blocked or failed CAT (how can I check this), O2 sensor (I haven't checked this yet), or the EGR valve (again how can this be checked) - none of these flag up a code on VAG as I understand(?).

 

So really frustrating to be honest. One thought is throwing me to doubts about the inlet manifold as this was refitted after the head was skimmed, all hoses going to it seem to be sound. Should I reset the ECU?

 

As mentioned I have searched the forum but any suggestions on how to check the CAT or the EGR valve would be helpful as ever.

 

Looking forward to any ideas.

 

Thanks again,

 

Phil

[sparky Paul]

If you haven't already, I would double check timing.

 

Any emissions problem that is measurable at the O2 sensor will normally put he engine MIL on. In any case, you will need a cheap generic OBDII interface cable to read the engine components, look for one that is ELM327 based.

Edited May 10, 2012 by sparky Paul

[philclemo]

Hi Paul

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I will check it at the weekend, but it is hard to believe that the timing could be out as I marked the chain links to the sprocket and these thankfully married up on re-assembly. As I have mentioned in my first post, the existing timing marks are woeful, as it is almost impossible to measure 2.2 and 2.9 deg, surely the sensible thing would be to have the marks corresponding with the top edge of the casting?

 

Thanks again for your reply.

 

Phil

[seatkid]

Agree 100% with sparkypaul - check your timing.

[philclemo]

Thanks Guys

 

Not looking forward to forking out for a new timing chain tensioner though!

 

Anybody know if there is a cheaper supply of these?

 

Phil

[seatkid]

Thanks Guys

 

Not looking forward to forking out for a new timing chain tensioner though!

 

Anybody know if there is a cheaper supply of these?

 

Phil

Why do you need a new tensioner? Didnt you change it not long ago?

[philclemo]

Hi Seatkid

 

The part is a one use piece of kit. Once it is deployed it is impossible to compress it back to 'as shipped' state. That is unless someone knows of a way???

 

Phil

[sparky Paul]

The part is a one use piece of kit. Once it is deployed it is impossible to compress it back to 'as shipped' state. That is unless someone knows of a way???

 

It is indeed a single-use device, but IIRC someone mentioned on here that they were able to reset the tensioner by squashing it up in a vice.

[philclemo]

Hi Paul

 

I have had a go at that but to no avail. It seems as though it has some sort of no return locking device built in. On saying that I know from personal experience that a Hyundai tensioner is able to be reset by using a vice. If anyone knows of a way then I am all ears, as forking out another

[seatkid]

Hi Paul

 

I have had a go at that but to no avail. It seems as though it has some sort of no return locking device built in. On saying that I know from personal experience that a Hyundai tensioner is able to be reset by using a vice. If anyone knows of a way then I am all ears, as forking out another £80 odd is not endearing me!!!!

 

Phil

Maybe this Austrailian site might help

 

ford 2.3 chain tensioner available here

 

Failing that, have you tried GSF car parts - give them a ring.

Edited May 12, 2012 by seatkid

[philclemo]

Hi SK

 

Thanks for the Aussie link.

 

See pic of the Gals tensioner below. This is the one I bought last June but only fitted earlier this year. It is in it's fully deployed state. When new you should only be able to see the ridge at the top of the piston sticking out from the main body. Once deployed the second ridge is visible, you see it just above the body. If I compress the tensioner in a vice it compresses only to the top edge of this ridge and goes no further. It must lock up inside I presume.

 

As I mentioned in my first post this part cost

[chrispb123456]

Hi Phil

Have you established that the timing is out?

Just wondered as you say you need another tensioner

[philclemo]

Hi Chris

 

No not yet. The car is busy........

 

It will just be a case of taking the rocker cover off I hope!

[seatkid]

OK, looking at your pic you need this

 

I'll be most surprised if GSF cant offer you one cheaper.

 

Just a thought, although I didnt read the austrailian webpage fully, do you not think that the tensioner can be reset by twisting the piston relative to the barrel whilst compressing? A bit like rear brake calipers......

Edited May 12, 2012 by seatkid

[chrispb123456]

Hi Chris

 

No not yet. The car is busy........

 

It will just be a case of taking the rocker cover off I hope!

Are there not timing marks on the two cam sprockets and the crank pulley?